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	<title>Comments on: LLL Script</title>
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	<link>http://www.lebaneselanguage.org</link>
	<description>Preserving the Lebanese Language (Beta Version)</description>
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		<title>By: Marun</title>
		<link>http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lll-system/lebanese-latin-letters/comment-page-1/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Marun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lebanese-latin-letters#comment-46</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-44&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@260217370&lt;/a&gt; 

What you should remember is that the eastern or Semitic approach to writing a language differs greatly from the western or Latin approach. the problem is in the lack of vowels system in the Arabic, Syriac, Aramaic, Phoenician, Hebrew, Babylonian, etc… systems. Latinizing the alphabet means the adoption of a “vowel” based system. This has nothing to do with politics, religion, or other non-linguistic based theories. This is purely a linguistic approach towards making the Lebanese Language easier to learn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-44" rel="nofollow">@260217370</a> </p>
<p>What you should remember is that the eastern or Semitic approach to writing a language differs greatly from the western or Latin approach. the problem is in the lack of vowels system in the Arabic, Syriac, Aramaic, Phoenician, Hebrew, Babylonian, etc… systems. Latinizing the alphabet means the adoption of a “vowel” based system. This has nothing to do with politics, religion, or other non-linguistic based theories. This is purely a linguistic approach towards making the Lebanese Language easier to learn.</p>
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		<title>By: 260217370</title>
		<link>http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lll-system/lebanese-latin-letters/comment-page-1/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>260217370</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lebanese-latin-letters#comment-44</guid>
		<description>I see the merit of simplifying the alphabet to a Latin-based system (to help people learn the language, and communicate electronically, and perhaps to allow a smoother integration of foreign proper nouns and other vocabulary).

But choice of alphabet would be influenced by the setting. This seems well-suited to the informal world of web chat rooms, text messaging and facebook (in which case many people already use the Latin alphabet to write Arabic-influenced dialects and languages, though often using numerals to designate additional sounds. But I wonder if this alphabet, or even if the Lebanese vernacular itself, are used much in more formal settings. My understanding is that Modern Standard Arabic, French, and even English dominate formal language in Lebanon. If Lebanese is to seek to upgrade itself as master in its own land, it will need a dignified written and alphabetic convention.

That may be this Latin system, or it may lie in a some other system closer to the history of Lebanon. If not Arabic script, then perhaps in an Aramaic script, such as the Babylonian literary type standard employed in Hebrew, or the Syriac alphabet. Either one would come already well-equipped for the vocalizations present in Lebanese language. Of course the old Phoenician/Canaanite/Ancient Hebrew systems are plausible too, though they were generally replaced by Aramaic alphabets with the rise of formal writing and later press publication, and generally still look like stone carvings. 

With new technology there are a few scenarios for languages in the Middle East. Standard Arabic could consolidate its presence over the local dialects and vernaculars with the spread of a common media market. Alternatively French and English could become so widespread in formal settings that Standard Arabic fades, and the lingua franca for international communication between Middle Eastern states may become French or Arabic. Groups could work consciously to make one or the other of this happen. I think local dialects could actually be strengthened by proclaiming their independence from Arabic, and by displacing MSA with French and English to communicate beyond the local region.

In this case, Lebanese could be upgraded within Lebanon, and could potentially replace MSA in national media and culture. To declare its full autonomy from the Arab world an alphabetic switch could be useful, though the Latin alphabet may lose some of the history. A Babylonian alphabet might be controversial or unacceptable given that it is shared by Israeli Hebrew speakers. But a Syriac alphabet is native to the region and not associated with what I assume many see as the enemy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see the merit of simplifying the alphabet to a Latin-based system (to help people learn the language, and communicate electronically, and perhaps to allow a smoother integration of foreign proper nouns and other vocabulary).</p>
<p>But choice of alphabet would be influenced by the setting. This seems well-suited to the informal world of web chat rooms, text messaging and facebook (in which case many people already use the Latin alphabet to write Arabic-influenced dialects and languages, though often using numerals to designate additional sounds. But I wonder if this alphabet, or even if the Lebanese vernacular itself, are used much in more formal settings. My understanding is that Modern Standard Arabic, French, and even English dominate formal language in Lebanon. If Lebanese is to seek to upgrade itself as master in its own land, it will need a dignified written and alphabetic convention.</p>
<p>That may be this Latin system, or it may lie in a some other system closer to the history of Lebanon. If not Arabic script, then perhaps in an Aramaic script, such as the Babylonian literary type standard employed in Hebrew, or the Syriac alphabet. Either one would come already well-equipped for the vocalizations present in Lebanese language. Of course the old Phoenician/Canaanite/Ancient Hebrew systems are plausible too, though they were generally replaced by Aramaic alphabets with the rise of formal writing and later press publication, and generally still look like stone carvings. </p>
<p>With new technology there are a few scenarios for languages in the Middle East. Standard Arabic could consolidate its presence over the local dialects and vernaculars with the spread of a common media market. Alternatively French and English could become so widespread in formal settings that Standard Arabic fades, and the lingua franca for international communication between Middle Eastern states may become French or Arabic. Groups could work consciously to make one or the other of this happen. I think local dialects could actually be strengthened by proclaiming their independence from Arabic, and by displacing MSA with French and English to communicate beyond the local region.</p>
<p>In this case, Lebanese could be upgraded within Lebanon, and could potentially replace MSA in national media and culture. To declare its full autonomy from the Arab world an alphabetic switch could be useful, though the Latin alphabet may lose some of the history. A Babylonian alphabet might be controversial or unacceptable given that it is shared by Israeli Hebrew speakers. But a Syriac alphabet is native to the region and not associated with what I assume many see as the enemy.</p>
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		<title>By: Latin-ing Lebanese &#124; Lebanon News: Under Rug Swept</title>
		<link>http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lll-system/lebanese-latin-letters/comment-page-1/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Latin-ing Lebanese &#124; Lebanon News: Under Rug Swept</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 18:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lebanese-latin-letters#comment-40</guid>
		<description>[...] method of modernization involves going the way of Turkish: Lebanese Latin Letters. The organization has also developed a Lebanese [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] method of modernization involves going the way of Turkish: Lebanese Latin Letters. The organization has also developed a Lebanese [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Canaanite.org » List of Phoenician Male Names</title>
		<link>http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lll-system/lebanese-latin-letters/comment-page-1/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>Canaanite.org » List of Phoenician Male Names</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 11:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lebanese-latin-letters#comment-39</guid>
		<description>[...] To read the names properly, refer to the Lebanese Latin Letters [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] To read the names properly, refer to the Lebanese Latin Letters [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Status of Dictionary at Canaanite.org</title>
		<link>http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lll-system/lebanese-latin-letters/comment-page-1/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>Status of Dictionary at Canaanite.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 17:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lebanese-latin-letters#comment-38</guid>
		<description>[...] thousands of years ago, and we will also have a transliteration in the Lebanese Language using the Lebanese Latin Letters system. Bear with me as I update the database with the new scripts. After that, I will be adding [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] thousands of years ago, and we will also have a transliteration in the Lebanese Language using the Lebanese Latin Letters system. Bear with me as I update the database with the new scripts. After that, I will be adding [...]</p>
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		<title>By: HilwehAmoora</title>
		<link>http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lll-system/lebanese-latin-letters/comment-page-1/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>HilwehAmoora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 21:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lebanese-latin-letters#comment-36</guid>
		<description>Maroun,

I agree with you on this point.  While Lebanon is home to many variations on the accent--some softer, some nuance their pronunciation--it is also important--moreover a responsibility of Lebanese speakers--to make this distinction known.
I have many friends who don&#039;t distinguish between what can be called, &quot;heavy letters&quot;, and others who do.

John,consider too that many will be critical of your choosing not do so, dismissing it as &quot;because you are anglophone,&quot; and not because it was intentional.  In Linguistics this called a &quot;fault&quot; where native speakers deliberately ignore a prescriptive grammar rule. It is more forgivable for native speakers than for those who are trying to learn the language.

Just so food for thought,

Serena</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maroun,</p>
<p>I agree with you on this point.  While Lebanon is home to many variations on the accent&#8211;some softer, some nuance their pronunciation&#8211;it is also important&#8211;moreover a responsibility of Lebanese speakers&#8211;to make this distinction known.<br />
I have many friends who don&#8217;t distinguish between what can be called, &#8220;heavy letters&#8221;, and others who do.</p>
<p>John,consider too that many will be critical of your choosing not do so, dismissing it as &#8220;because you are anglophone,&#8221; and not because it was intentional.  In Linguistics this called a &#8220;fault&#8221; where native speakers deliberately ignore a prescriptive grammar rule. It is more forgivable for native speakers than for those who are trying to learn the language.</p>
<p>Just so food for thought,</p>
<p>Serena</p>
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		<title>By: maroun</title>
		<link>http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lll-system/lebanese-latin-letters/comment-page-1/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>maroun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lebanese-latin-letters#comment-35</guid>
		<description>John,

In reply to your comment, I will take an example of Bayda vs. Bayḋa. The Bayda is an Arabic word that means the &quot;Desert&quot;, whereas the &quot;Bayḋa&quot; means an egg. There are many of these words, and if we need to create a proper dictionary, these simple variations are necessary, especially when conjugation will come into play for all the words.

We have also considered the i with a double dot. and even though it looks acceptable  standing alone, ï , you can see when you put it in the word the double dot interferes with the rest of the letters. 

example: Ḣabïbak.

I hope I addressed some of your questions here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>In reply to your comment, I will take an example of Bayda vs. Bayḋa. The Bayda is an Arabic word that means the &#8220;Desert&#8221;, whereas the &#8220;Bayḋa&#8221; means an egg. There are many of these words, and if we need to create a proper dictionary, these simple variations are necessary, especially when conjugation will come into play for all the words.</p>
<p>We have also considered the i with a double dot. and even though it looks acceptable  standing alone, ï , you can see when you put it in the word the double dot interferes with the rest of the letters. </p>
<p>example: Ḣabïbak.</p>
<p>I hope I addressed some of your questions here.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lll-system/lebanese-latin-letters/comment-page-1/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lebanese-latin-letters#comment-26</guid>
		<description>Hi! i think what you are doing is brilliant! good luck and i really hope you&#039;ll be successful in promoting this latin system. 
xan jadd, bravo xlaykon!
but we need a standard for all the lebanese words. i just read you&#039;re currently building a lebanese dictionary which will do just that! a written standard for the new alphabet.

however, i dont understand the point of some of the letters you gave above, for example:
-in the last example Mażbuṫ: why have a heavy T when the word Mażbut will sound exactly the same!  (Mażbuṫ = Mażbut)
-same goes with Bayḋa! (Bayḋa = Bayda) ... why have a heavy D ? it will sound the same anyway.
- Ṡura = Sura  (no need for heavy S! i dont think anyway)
- Ṫarii` = Tarii` (no need for heavy T!)  

i think the heavy sounds on the S, D, T etc are a traditional arabic sound and would be unused in the lebanese language. unless off course i am mistaken. maybe there are more examples you can give me to clarify this?!

finally, why have II when we can have Ï ? badde ruhv la honiik (badde ruhv la honïk)  - or - iide w ïdak - Hvabiibe w Hvabïbak ??? 

brill website in any case
thanks!
J.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi! i think what you are doing is brilliant! good luck and i really hope you&#8217;ll be successful in promoting this latin system.<br />
xan jadd, bravo xlaykon!<br />
but we need a standard for all the lebanese words. i just read you&#8217;re currently building a lebanese dictionary which will do just that! a written standard for the new alphabet.</p>
<p>however, i dont understand the point of some of the letters you gave above, for example:<br />
-in the last example Mażbuṫ: why have a heavy T when the word Mażbut will sound exactly the same!  (Mażbuṫ = Mażbut)<br />
-same goes with Bayḋa! (Bayḋa = Bayda) &#8230; why have a heavy D ? it will sound the same anyway.<br />
- Ṡura = Sura  (no need for heavy S! i dont think anyway)<br />
- Ṫarii` = Tarii` (no need for heavy T!)  </p>
<p>i think the heavy sounds on the S, D, T etc are a traditional arabic sound and would be unused in the lebanese language. unless off course i am mistaken. maybe there are more examples you can give me to clarify this?!</p>
<p>finally, why have II when we can have Ï ? badde ruhv la honiik (badde ruhv la honïk)  &#8211; or &#8211; iide w ïdak &#8211; Hvabiibe w Hvabïbak ??? </p>
<p>brill website in any case<br />
thanks!<br />
J.</p>
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